How to use this Page

hmmm...this sounds vaguely familiar!!! I think in my attempt not to bog down the reader, I don't leave any stones and like you mentioned here, the reader flies by the important scene. Thanks for the clue to lay the clues!

Totally agree. Ilike to tell stories rather than ramble on about things. But that's just my style. I know it's not for everybody.

Great blog!

What intrigued me was your reference to "characters" I hope to create an emotional connection between my readers through the voice of my main character and his interaction with the cast of characters I have saddled him with. My hope is the results are funny.

Hi kathie shoop -- glad it helps. Foreshadowing creates curiosity. Curiosity leads to page-turnability.

Tina, interesting -- what in your mind differentiates between telling a story and rambling???

alantru -- one of the most difficult things to create in ones writing is humor -- if you've got it, you're one of the lucky ones!!

I wonder if he means one of those stream-of-consciousness novels which is full of memory and internal movement but no real external movement from scene A to scene B.

Or maybe he means a slice-of-life novel where nothing really happens...but where there is all this angsty stuff going on.

Maybe he means "a kind of emotional conclusion" when he writes that the story has a "point"

Thanks, Carole, for your comments. Now, the question becomes, would you read any of those types of novels?? Short stories, perhaps. But, a full-length novel?? Hmmmmm. Could memory, internal movement, slice-of-life be written in a compelling enough manner to hold your interest for an entire novel???

When I wrote the comment what I was thinking about was structure. I have never written a sonnet because the form exists before the poem. I write the words and then structure them afterward.

It's the same with my short stories and my novels. I start off with a guy in a situation: in the first novel, it's a guy getting ready for work; in the second, a hut waking up with a sore neck; in the third, a guy standing around in a park; in the fourth, a pair of half-brothers getting dressed and in the current one, a woman cleaning her dead father's flat. In each instance that is all I've known about the characters. There is no plan.

The closest I've come to a plan was in my last novel. Once I realised who the brothers were and where they were I could see where the book needed to end and so I wrote the last chapter. Then all I had to do was get them there. If there's a plot then it's The Journey but the point to the novel only became clear to me when I was writing a block of dialogue and a priest utters the line, "There are no reasons for unreasonable things." After I had that in my head that became the 'flavour' of the book. The brothers began looking for reasons after the fact. Where they ended up at the close of the book was no longer the issue because their inability to resolve their actions would continue for the rest of their lives.

Is the book a 'slice of life'? I suppose it is. The point about the plot, the who does what to whom, is that it doesn't matter who they meet on their travels. Every book I have written can be drilled down to a very thin plot, the skeleton through the body of the work but, just as with the human body, the skeleton is hidden from view. A plot, to my mind, is an artificial construct. The better plots are hard to notice but all you have to do is look at the writings of P G Wodehouse or E. F. Benson to see books that wear their plots proudly. Everything in their books is idealised.

There is an online essay you might like to have a look at which discusses Virginia Wolff's plotless novel Mrs Dalloway which you might want to have a look at but a Google search for "plotless novel" (use the inverted commas) reveals a few interesting examples including Kerouac, Naipaul, Calvino, Bookner and, of course, Beckett.

How can he write with 'no-plot'? Even baseless, meaningless story writing needs plots, one way or the other.

Well, let him write. We will wait to read it and then see, what he means by 'no-plot' writing.

I have to agree with you, Martha--I'm guessing that either this writer has more plot than he realizes or he NEEDS more plot. I think sometimes writers think that to have a plot means it's all laying right out there on the page, for a reader to sort of track with a pencil. A good, substantial plot can be so hidden and layered into a story that the reader never even notices it.

I've been taught by my wonderful cp that if the the scene doesn't advance the story, it should be deleted. The plot moves along in increments and there isn't room for the characters doing whatever until more action happens. I would think tension would be lost and it's the tension that keeps me reading. Some scenes are break scenes, but they still should move the plot ahead.

BUT there always is the exception to the rule and that makes reading fun. :D God made us all different. Just THINK what that means for storytelling.

Hugs, JJ

I find this all so interesting.

There are definitely two camps -- obviously the plot camp would be strong on this blog since that's what the blog is all about. But, the character side is definitely out there.

I'll try in the next couple of days to post some of the comments I received when I queried writers what they thought when they thought plot.

You can't believe, or perhaps you can, the negative reactions the majority of writers had to the concept of plot. I'm warmed by the responses here, but again, I don't know that it's a fair representation of who is out there.

Fascinating.........

I, too, like characters over a lot of high action but I can't think of a story I've read and liked that didn't have some kind of action going on.

After returning from vacation I had no idea how to get started again. I decided to reread your entries here again and I'm off and running.
Many thanks

Thanks, Jim, for the link to the essay about Mrs. Dalloway. Fascinating piece.
What a particularly liked were:
"to relate the plot involves capturing the reasons why the things that happen happen." So simple and yet so true.
"Plots make what happen in a novel seem natural and inevitable."
Coincidences are usually frowned upon in writing fiction because they can be construed as too convenient for the writer and thus not believable which can thrust the reader out the dream.
"Most stories that are written and read have plots. The writer makes certain decisions about characters (their personalities and qualities), and about characters' relations to other characters or to social forces and events. The author then comes up with a plot built upon the likely responses and actions of character types in relation to other character types or in relation to social happenings."
Well, I can't quote the entire piece here, but needless to say, I really enjoyed reading it.
I applaud you for writing outside the box and support your efforts.
Great good luck!

I'm a terrible joke teller but here goes: After a night of lovemaking a man asks his besotted: Was it good for you? to which she responds: Define good!!!!! For me the plot question is a bit like this joke. There are so many ways to go with it. I'm always striving for good lines, great scenes, interesting characters but I also very often refer back to my novel's grand structure which is written on butcher's paper and taped to the walls of my office (Thanks to Martha's 'Blockbuster Plots) I don't think I'd want to read a novel that is all in the characters head without much else going on, but then show me a great book that accomplishes this and I'll be the first to read it. The person who wrote in looks like he's hoping for a 'Yes, you're doing it the right way' sort of answer. My first writing instructor, Thaisa Frank says there are no right or wrong ways to tell a story just the inevitable path it must take.

I loved Susan Minot's 'Evening' which was recently turned into a movie. There wasn't a whole lot of plot though it did chronicle the life of a seventy something woman as she lay dying. I'm at the personal stage in life where I strive for balance and I guess that applies to my writing style as well. Pick and chose wisely and write the story that needs to be told by you right now... Mary Kennedy Eastham, Author, 'The Shadow of a Dog I Can't Forget' and the novel 'Night Surfing - The story of love and wonder in the waves of Malibu'

Glad to know I'm not the only one with a dysfunctional family. Looking forward to Christmas so I can try out your suggestion.

Thanks.

Keep up the good work.

HA! You think you can create your own climax, what the heck does that mean. Don't think so.

Don't we all write because THAT plot IS more easily controlled? :)

Of course, some people might say that we are creating our own reality every day, whether we're aware of it or not...Personally, I'm planning on a happy ending.

Thanks Martha for your continued commitment in providing such a great and useful tool. Your tools are so simple to use, they're almost brilliant. Your DVD was also very helpful! A great supplement to the book and highly recommend. Everytime I reread your book, I continue to find additional nuggets of worthwhile information. Thank you again for honoring your book's techniques the way you do on your site!

Hi Livvy,

You are so kind. Thank you for your comments.

Distilling the abstract concept of plot to a simple, concrete level is not as easy as it sounds.

However, I didn't want learning to use the tools to take time away from writing, but rather I wanted to make the tools simple in order to enhance and inspire and stimulate the muse.

My goal when I wrote the book was and continues to be to support writers in the actual act of writing.

Many comments I receive from writers indicate that when they hit a rough spot or lose energy for their stories, by merely switching from writing to filling in the templates, their creative juices begin to flow again and, before they know it, they are back to the actual writing.

The plot tools I offer are not the end, but merely the means to the end. In other words, I offer up the tools to help you not only write, but to finish your project in a way that pleases you, and ultimately your readers and audience, too.

Thanks again, and please feel free to post any other questions that may crop up. I may not always answer very quickly, but I am always here and willing to help.

Good luck!

I would love to see you come out with another book Martha! Do you have anything in the works any time soon?

Since watching your DVD, I am now reading AL Capone Does My SHirts. Great book!

I will definately keep in touch and let you know how things are progressing. If anything else comes up, I will definately blog you a question. For now, I have tailored your tools for preplotting / plotting and am more focused in my writing. At least now, I have a clearer sense of direction in knowing that many if not most of the key elements of a scene/story are not being forgotten. This is definately a great tool to have during revision.

I look forward to reading more of your monthly tips as time goes by! Thanks again.

It was interesting to listen to a podcast that was created and produced by 2nd graders. What a wonderful way to incorporate the various elements of literacy. The students had to read, write, speak, and listen in order to produce a show of there own. They thought deeply about the content and discussed a topic of relevance to children - friends. I would love to learn more about how the project was organized and can’t wait to hear the next, behind the scenes, podcast. This provides such a real-life way for students to practice literacy skills and to develop creativity. I also liked how the parts of the show were dedicated to humanities such as art, music, and jokes. Far to often in our standards-driven and premade curriculum classrooms we forget to incorporate such elements that actually get students excited about learning. Thanks for providing this example of a student generated podcast!

Hi Professor Vasquez,
As teachers it’s important to give children a since of ownership of their work. I think that having a pod cast for children can give their work purpose. There are lost of stories in our curriculum that have connection various pod cast that I could create. One example is a unit that covers our community. This would be a great way to motivate my students and to get parents involved. I am defiantly going to incorporate this in my student projects list.

Dr. Vivian,
Thank You so much for opening my eyes to critical literacy. The podcast with children was great. The children’s meaning of friends and friendship was in-depth and endearing. I was amazed how important friendship is to them and how they represent their meaning of friendship through different forms of expression such as art and song. I think sometimes as adults we forget how children think, feel and interpret. It is refreshing to put them back into perspective. Listening to this show made me aware of the many different layers of emotions and expressions children have and how well they are able to express them especially when they are in an environment that encourages them.

Bravo,
Andy

Dr. Vivian,

What a wonderful show about friendship! I really enjoyed hearing directly from kids how they think and feel about friendship. Their language was simple but their message was so deep. They love being friends and making friends with others. They were able to express themselves through song, art and spoken words. I especially loved hearing the kids talk about how they love to meet new friends and they are sad to see their friends move away. Maybe other kids that are moving to new places will feel more comfortable making new friends after hearing what these kids have shared. I also loved singing along with the Peanut Butter and Jelly song. It’s great that you have given the kids from 100% Kids a space to share with kids and adults all over the world.

Hi Professo Vasquez,

This was a cool class!. I liked the kids podcast and how they were able to take critcal literacy and make it mean something to them using friendship as a subject. They did not seem to have any technophobia at all. It has challenged me to consider using this medium for my highschool classes. It is alo amazing that students can get so bogged down with the technical aspects of a concept that they don’t realize they can explain things in more simpler terms. Keep up the good work!

I absolutely love the fact that your students are podcasting at such an early age. Introducing young kids to technology as such an early age is a wonderful thing because it immerses them into the cutting-edge society in which they live. These students are not only learning how to use technology, but they are learning how to work cooperatively with others, form and sustain friendships, start and finish a project, and articulate themselves properly. I also think that it is very significant that students are incorprating critical literacy in their pidcasts.
Listening to these kids encourages me to make an effort to introduce my stidents to podcasting or blogging. It would be cool to set up a blogsite where students post responses to various prompts about articles or books we are reading in class.

In our on-going efforts to expand the use of technology in the classroom, podcasting by children is amazing! I am constantly looking for ways to go beyond merely using our classroom laptops for more than researching and compiling presentations. I have thought about blogging, but a great interim step would be podcasting. One of the strengths of this form of technology is the variety of forms and subjects that can be brought into each podcast. 100% kids ran the gambit from student commentary, messages to others, music, art and, particularly engaging, second graders’ stand up comic routines. For a teacher who is learning the ins and outs of technology by the seat of her pants, podcasting seems to be a less complicated method of guaranteeing great student involvement and satisfaction with the final product. Thanks for this introduction to what should be a very diverse learning experiement for both my students and for me.

Thanks so much everyone! The 2nd graders will be thrilled that you enjoyed their show! It has been amazing to see the numerous literacies that have come from creating and participating in the show. This truly has been a cross-curricular engagement that has sustained genuine interest in learning. It also has a built in generativeness that creates space for further inquiry, research and exploration!

I’d love to know about podcasting you might do with your students!

Thanks Much
vivian

I was amazed by the children in this podcast. While I wondered if they really grasped the importance and power of what they were accomplishing, it was so obvious that they were having fun. It’s like eating Honey Nut Cheerios…they don’t realize it’s actually good for them!
As a teacher in an arts infused school, I was very pleased to see that, not only was technology being used to the fullest degree, but various media was brought into it,such as art and music. It was mind boggling and eye-opening! I am even more excited to use this technology in the classroom…especially if I teach kindergarten next year!

It was great to hear the kids enthusiasm in this podcast. This is a great way for kids to see how fun it can be to share what they like and don’t like about books. This is a great way for kids to see how literacy is a part of their lives. It makes kids feel successful and know that what they say, think and feel about litearcy is important. In addition, kids can use this fun website to share with family and friends. Podast are a fun way for kids to see for themselves and share with others how fun and exciting literacy is. I love it!!