Barbara Watson asked: "Who do trust with writing advice when your CPs views differ greatly?"
I thought it would be a good idea to go to my own CPs for this one to see what they do in this situation. So I'd like you to welcome my guests, Leslie Rose and Julie Musil.
Julie's answer:Great question, Barbara! If Lisa and Leslie's views differ greatly, I first say this, "One, two, three, four, I declare a thumb war." Whoever is the victor, that's whose opinion wins. Great, right?
Just kidding. If only it were that easy.
My advice would be to trust yourself, because reading and writing tastes are totally subjective. I might read a paragraph and love it, and someone else might read it and crinkle their nose. When I'm reading my CP's manuscripts, I just try to let them know what was in my head when I read it. If our other partner disagrees, I totally respect that. It's then up to the author to decide how to handle it. She can go with my opinion, the other partner's, or she can leave it alone. Same when they read my work...I weigh the comments from both partners carefully, and then go with my gut. When we critique our partners' work, all we can do is be kind, fair, and honest, and then let the author decide how to process that information.
Leslie's answer:When I get differing opinions I use a four prong approach. First, I will try out both suggestions in a revision and see which one hits closer to the target I originally intended. Second, I may just side with the person whose comment is closer to my gut instinct. Third, I will seek a new opinion and see where it falls. Fourth, I will scrap the portion in question completely, go a whole new way with it and send it back to my CPs. Bottom line: I trust my partners deeply so if something popped out enough for one of them to comment on it then I know I need to address it.
Well there you have it! I love my CPs. Any other opinions out there? Share with each other in the comments. Personally, I like the thumb war... KIDDING!
My last of the "How" questions comes from the amazing Leslie Rose. Leslie asks: "How do you avoid a "saggymiddle" in your story?"
A: Saggy middles are one of those hard to avoid things in life. But in our stories? It's the worst! So you might be surprised at my answer. Saggy middles are a symptom of the writer getting off track. To simplify, we have act 1 that sets up the problem, right? We end in Act 3 with the resolution. So we need to get our character from point A to B. Simple? Yeah right. But the point is, you have to keep in mind the whole time whether what you are writing is indeed moving the story forward. Every word on the page should move the story and/or character forward. If it doesn't, as interesting as it may be, it doesn't belong there.
Now I'm not saying that if you do it right, the saggy middle doesn't exist. Perish the thought! We all have to fight it. That's what revision is for (I think that's becoming my mantra). Seriously though, as you do a pass, ask yourself the following three questions about each page:- Does this move the plot forward?
- Does this help build my character arc?
- Is there tension?
Because there should be tension on every page. If it isn't there, add it. It doesn't have to be the world at stake. Just make sure there's something in the way. That will help force numbers 1 and 2 into action. Make sense?
How do you avoid saggy middles?
Boy do I have a post foryou! See, my writing compadres, Julie Musil and Leslie Rose, and I have allfinished reading BEAUTY QUEENS by Libba Bray. This book is too amazing to becontained in a single post, so the three of us have come together this week tobring you an uber-awesome BEAUTY QUEENS Blog Extravaganza complete with our ownbeauty contestant profiles and a contest too fun to believe. So make yourselvescomfortable for part one, right here, right now.
And with me to review thebook I have none other than a beauty contestant, Miss Writer’s Block!
Me: So what did you think of the book?
MWB: It was pretty. *Smiles*
Me: *Cringes away from blinding reflection off teeth* How did the story makeyou feel?
MWB: Confused and awed. Imean, I can’t even finish my book, let alone come up with yummy stories thatwork together so well and actually mean something. That’s why I went for theTitle. *fingers ribbon*
Me: Thank you, Miss Writer’sBlock.
My opinion? Oh come on. Youguys know Libba Bray is my favorite author. I may or may not have blackmailedher into taking this picture with me at the SCBWI conference. Either way, thisbook did NOT disappoint. I’d say lots of good stuff about the genius of it, butlet’s leave it at: If you want to be my friend you should read this book.
Now to my fun facts pagebased off the novel:
24 Comments on Beauty Queens Extravaganza and Contest!, last added: 10/20/2011
Today's Monday Madness features my friend and critique partner Leslie Rose.
Now if you read Leslie's bio, you will see that she has great credentials. She has a Masters in Design from UCLA, and taught there for many years. She now teaches upper elementary kids and writes YA.
What you don't see in her bio is her personality which, and I can say this from firsthand knowledge, is bigger than King Kong. She's not only open, friendly, approachable, and kind. She's FUNNY, energetic, outgoing, and crazy (but in a good way).
And this translates to her writing. Which is incredible. I have no doubt that she will find representation and publication. You can have all the credentials in the world, but be unable to write like that.
Leslie keeps me fresh. She keeps me thinking on my toes. And I love her for it.
So what is she?? Well, lets see.. The ability to go between teacher, friend, and writer while all the time being both hysterical, supportive, and intellectual?
She's a Shape-Shifter! Well, either that or an alien. But I'm going with Shape-Shifter here. It just sounds better.
Now, go forth and clicky-clicky the link.
![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/6734108232999147338-5433392767533936476?l=paranormalpointofview.blogspot.c
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Great post! I had the unfortunate experience of having 2 CPs agree but my agent come down on the opposite side! In that case, agent won. But when 2 CPs disagree ... I guess I do go with my instincts, but I always question whether I'm letting myself off too easy.
I have had beta readers say or recommend something that was off the point of what I wanted my manuscript to develop into. I picked apart points that stayed in line with what I the author wanted to write and let the other comments be set aside. I expect the same when I comment on others work. As a critique partner I know I can only give my opinion. But as an author I want to see the various interpretations of my work. It gives you an idea of the odds. If most of your critique partners/beta readers agree then that's a good sampling of the populations of readers.
Both pieces of advice are great! It's such a balance--finding what works. I like the idea of trusting yourself and your story balanced with reworking and seeing where it leads.
PS: Kinda freaky seeing that large photo of myself pop up on your blog today, Lisa. :-D
I'm not surprised these ladies have great advice! I like both sets of advice!
Practical solutions to a very common problem! Thanks, this is so helpful. :)
I vote for the thumb war, too! If that's not scientific enough, though, there's always Rock, Paper, Scissors. :-)
That said, great advice from all three of you! I especially love the idea of going with the idea that's closest to your gut instinct and, if that doesn't work, scrapping the whole section and starting over. It's wonderful that you've found critique partners you have so much trust in!
Great question and great advice, because in my experience, no one ever totally agrees! It's all so subjective, even when agreeing there is a problem.
I recently received feedback on a manuscript where I knew I had a problem, and various people had said what they thought it was, no one agreeing with anyone else. Finally, one person nailed it, and once she did, all the other critiques made sense. They'd all been skirting it, but just not a bulls-eye.
-- Susan
Lisa, thanks so much for hosting us today! Barbara, it was such a great question and it was fun to compare answers with Leslie. Trust and respect are totally key. And of course, the thumb war :)
Super question, Barbara. I change my response - thumb war all the way.:)
It is so hard when you get different opinions from writers you trust. I often take both into consideration and by the time I've filtered those comments through my brain I might have written something totally different. My theory is if there's a spot where I get comments--even diverse ones--there's something that has to be done. What, is the biggest question.
I appreciate your bringing up a sensitive issue we've all experienced at one time or another. Great advice all the way around. Now, excuse me while I go do my thumb-strengthening exercises. ;-)
Sounds like a great critique threesome. Thanks, ladies!
I will sit and think about it for a while and see if it aligns with my vision for my story. I love my betas and always take their observations seriously!
In such a situation, I go with my instincts keeping my audience in mind.
I love my crit buddies and really take to heart what they say... after I let it sit for a day or so. That way I have time to come back to the work objectively and see whose input feels right for the story.
I sit on the notes for a few days and then use the suggestions that truly fit the manuscript. Most of them are used, but others don't fit my vision.
Amazingly different attitudes you have about it. Once again proving that it's all subjective including reviews.
I haven't written anything to need a cp so I can't really join in this conversation!
Heather
This is a fantastic post and something I've dealt with, too! I always try to have both critters and betas--I define that as critters = fellow writers with whom I swap critiques; betas = average readers who aren't writers, but who I know love books. I have about three of the former and four of the latter, and I tell you, it makes a HUGE difference getting both sides of the coin.
Ultimately, though, I think Julie & Leslie said it best. Go w/your gut. Thanks, LG! <3
How lucky to have such talented women critiquing for each other. Brilliant minds, indeed!
You have to go with your gut. And I think it's also important to understand who your CP is. Since writing is so subjective and personal tastes differ, you really have to stick to your guns. Just cuz one of my CPs doesn't like a scene or a character, doesnt mean I cut it. I understand that it's the personal taste of that CP. But I've also found that great CPs add their reason and that it's a matter of personal taste. ;)
Great post and awesome advice!