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So now the Punisher is a hottie? Why not? :p

I live in a time where all my heroes, from both DC and Marvel are on big screens. This! Is! Paradise!

Great piece, I really liked what you said about the live action tv dc stuff. But then I thought about that Arrow comic with the show runners, and how that didn’t really work. Maybe the talent just wasn’t right. If they were up for it, sticking Valentine and some of those other creators you mentioned and getting cohesion ‘like Marvel Star Wars cohesion’ for that line would be a thing of beauty. But, if you were to do that, would you detach it from continuity?

Another issue, especially when it comes to initiatives and new readers, is the delivery system/venue/format. Some people just don’t want monthly drips of a story or to collect comics they just want to read stories. There are a whole world of publishers and creators making those connections now. D

These are all great ideas but I’m particularly interested in the Vertigo one. I think the push they made at the end of 2015 is falling pretty flat and I’m guessing only two of those books will have any sort of lasting traction (Sheriff of Babylon and Unfollow). It’s really hard to see what kind of identity Vertigo can have now that Image is drinking their milkshake. I mean, I’m all for them putting out original, mature-reader works – especially if there is something in it for the creators – but going back to being a place for edgy, sophisticated mature-readers stories about weird DCU characters might be an ultimately more successful and brandable route for them to go.

DC needs to create some new characters, and not just superheroes., instead of reviving old series. I assume this is supposed to appeal to readers’ nostalgia, but there aren’t enough 50-something Baby Boomers and 40-something Gen X’ers still reading their comics to make this work. Create some new characters for the new readers.

“Steal a big name”: DC surged in the ’80s by “stealing” Frank Miller, John Byrne and other popular Marvel creators. Of course, they were helped by Jim Shooter’s management style, which led so many writers and artists to flee Marvel.

Question was the goal of this article how DC could sell more comics?

Because of it was only DC Unlimited is the only idea that fits that idea.

Tie in books to tv shows and cartoons don’t sell.

Vertigo comics featuring Constantine don’t sell.

Books written by minority writers like Orlando, Valentine, Tynion, Doyle don’t sell.

Diverse types of books like Omega Men, Black Canary, Midnighter, Prez don’t sell.

Short of WB magically getting the rights to Star Wars DC isn’t going to be selling comics.

I agree with Robert Mayland above. I’m not saying that DC couldn’t use a pretty hefty dose of diversity I think that the idea that somehow hiring someone of color will produce a comic book that is not only a) great and innovative and b) everyone of color will automatically read it..It’s not only demonstrably wrong (see the rest of the Top 10 comics on the list) but it’s also mildly condescending tbh.

“At the same time, it’s possible that they misjudged how big the market actually is for this kind of approach to their heroes.”

THIS. I’m sorry but it’s quite clear that Tumblr and its ilk are basically the very vocal minority (no pun intended). I agree with you that Batgirling isn’t bad but, as you said, you can’t try to build the undercard with it simply because there isn’t that much of a demand for it and no amount of promotion would help that. Also, while I’m spouting anecdotes I have a sinking suspicion that this same demographic they’re so desperately trying to court is of the same generational mindset that most of their media should be free or illegally downloaded. Obviously this is unprovable conjecture but we’re all just spitballing here anyway.

The rest is SPOT. ON. Especially the DC Unlimited idea. I’m sorry but who on Earth would pay $3.99 a pop for a DRM digital copy of a comic that costs the company next to nothing to produce?

Finally, before I step off my soapbox I’d like to add the idea that perhaps DC should shift into more of a manga approach and begin selling longer books at more affordable prices. No matter how you cut it, 4 bucks for an 8 minute read that won’t be continued for 30 more days just isn’t a good bargain. Especially in these days of super decompressed storytelling.

Everything having to do with sales, or (perhaps more importantly with the nature of a non-returnable Direct Market) the *perception* of sales really actually at the end of the day comes down to “is it any good?”

So any essay that doesn’t begin with editorial (and/or institutional) direction is, probably, missing the point.

-B

Hi Brian,

Maybe, but I’m not privy to actual conversations that occur regarding creative directions for DC’s various lines other than hearsay. Frankly, as of right now, I don’t know what DC’s editorial direction even is, if you were to really ask me. Perhaps you have better insight?

I sure hope no one ever actually makes the argument that good sales = good comics, cause there’s a whole lotta not very strong (IMO) X-Men comics that would disprove that thesis right quick.

But Brian – some of the DC You books are amazingly good and yet don’t sell. So material being “good” is not the answer. If they’re producing good material but it isn’t what the comics fans who walk into the store every week want, then their marketshare will continue to drop. And if they’re producing good material but the retailers and/or regular subscribers don’t have any faith in it then it won’t get on the shelves anyway and the people walking in to try it out won’t see it.

DC needs to decide if they want to be a comic book company anymore or not. If they don’t, then their dwindling marketshare in the comics market doesn’t matter at all and they can just continue to do what they’re doing until they reach the point where they’re not making enough money on the comics publishing to cover the overhead. At which point they can shut it down or license their characters out to another company to publish. But if DCE doesn’t really care one way or the other about publishing comics anymore and really want to be a brand management company, then maybe they just get as much money as they can out of the market for the next few years and shut it down when the profits start to being too small to care about.

If they want to be a comics company then they need to start sucking up to the retailers again. DC only gets their stuff on the shelves when they stroke the retailers a lot because the retailers in the business continue to view Marvel as their cash cow and DC as the also-ran. So if they want to be a comics publisher they should be bribing the retailers more heavily than Marvel does – do things like make more books returnable for longer to get retailers to stock more on the shelves and take more chances, or create some incentives for retailers to stock a diverse selection of titles rather than incentivizing buying dozens (or more) of extra copies of a single title to get those variant covers they sell on eBay. It may not be “fair” that they need to suck up to retailers more than Marvel does to get their books promoted, but business ain’t fair and if Marvel is doing that much better sales wise then its time to make some drastic interventions.

If they can’t afford to do that, and still want to publish something like “comics” in house then the other choice would be to give up on the month-to-month Direct Market and push heavily into the digital realm. Cut their printing costs dramatically by giving up on floppies entirely and switching to a digital to collection pipeline that would get their books on the bookshelves faster and forget about the monthly magazine format entirely. it would mean essentially giving up on the direct market, but with their marketshare dwindling as rapidly as it has this year the DM might just give up on them if they don’t do something drastic.

But they need to do something dramatic to convince readers and retailers that they’re not in a death spiral at this point. The reboot and the jump back to 90s style comics goosed their sales for a while on the nostalgia wave, but it didn’t work for long and its not going to work again. They need to do some more fundamental things than just make “good comics” to get back where they need to be or else they’re going to leave the market one way or another.

Robert,

“Tie in books to tv shows and cartoons don’t sell”

Maybe, maybe not. The current set of books DC releases are never adequately promoted for the tv viewer, or given creative teams that general interest the LCS customer. But, do both of those things and perhaps they will move units. They just announced a “Dark Archer” comic co-written by John Barrowman. But it’s probably going to be so underpromoted and hidden in their Comixology lineup, it’ll barely make a blip on the radar.

I know Buffy tie-in comics really aren’t all that comparable given that it was considered the “official continuation of the show”, but that first issue sold 90k copies. There’s an audience out there for this kind of stuff provided you hit the right buttons.

“Vertigo comics featuring Constantine don’t sell.”

Certainly not issue 200-300 something, which is how Hellblazer was basically left for the entrenched reader. But I think it’s hard to argue that an IP that a reader recognizes, starting at issue 1, wouldn’t sell better than a creator owned one that they don’t, barring there being a superstar creative team in question (and even then, it might not sell all that well, again see: Twilight Children).

Well, since the one is streaming and the other will be in theaters, I didn’t see it as much of a showdown in the first place.

Andrew, you’re right. And factor in that many, many more folks will watch the DCU film than will actually watch the second season of Daredevil.

The word is Marvel is looking at Asian and white actors for the Iron fist show, but isn’t it possible that Marvel will use Iron Fist to introduce Shang Chi, just as they used the jessica joines show to introduce Luke Cage?

At this point, I think too many people have put way too much value on the decision Marvel goes. The arguments and reasoning for people’s preference (those who have one as there are fans who have none at all and are just hoping for a great actor to take on the role) are understandable and have me nodding and listening and learning.

Having said that, a lot of people are going to be unhappy with whatever is decided. This is quite a deficit for the individual who will be chosen to be Iron Fist and that’s where I find things to be rather dismal.

“When Marvel and DC Comics hear cries for diversification, their first instinct is to turn to legacy characters like Red Wolf and Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu.”

Marvel’s first reaction to calls for diversity was Miles Morales, black Nick Fury, Sam Wilson Cap, Lady Thor, Muslim Ms. Marvel, Korean Hulk, the list goes on. Marvel changed their entire first string team long before they fell back on 4th string nobodies like Red Wolf or Master of Kung-Fu.

DC on the other hand pulled out Flipper Dipper.

This article and writer is stupid. Having an asian american as a lead actor for Iron Fist would be a significant step forward. There is nothing wrong with perpetuating the martial arts stereotype – it’s not a negative stereotype per say. Is it wrong to cast a black man as a lead in a basketball film? I don’t think so. Having some sort of representation is better than not being represented at all. I am completely apalled at the fact that the writer would rather prefer not seeing an asian in the media than having him assume the role of a protagonist and hero.

I appreciate your thoughts in the article Alexander. I think conversations like this are important. I understand the concern of pigeonholing Asian actors into martial arts roles. I also appreciate you saying that more Asian comic book characters need to be created. However, I disagree that casting an Asian-American Iron Fist would be a negative.

There are ways to nuance an Asian-American Iron Fist. I read Ching’s article as well and I think he was reductionistic in making Danny Rand only a simple martial arts hero. An Asian-American Fist can still have depth and be more than Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee.

1. We can still have the outsider story that so many comic fanboys (of which I consider myself to be one) love. If you make Danny Rand either bi-racial or a 2nd/3rd generation Asian-American, you keep the outsider storyline, but also add layers to it. How many Asian-Americans feel the pull between American culture and Asian culture?

2. An Asian martial arts series by itself isn’t a bad thing. In Chinese cinema martial arts movies are a true art form. It’s part of the heritage of Asian cinema, just like Westerns are a big part of American cinema. Furthermore, you can add layers to the martial arts element. Go watch Rickson Gracie talk about BJJ and how it’s such a transformative tool. The constant practice and failure that goes into learning martial arts could be a great storytelling device if taken beyond the “snatch the pebble from my hand,” cliche.

3. Newer comic book characters don’t get as much pull. Ask anyone who their favorite superhero is. Iron Man? Captain America? Batman (my own favorite)? Flash? Green Lantern (another favorite thanks to Geoff Johns). What do these heroes have in common? They are all well established heroes. Simply creating another hero through comics, that does not have nearly as big an audience as movies, and hoping he or she will become popular is very hard to do. Miles Morales isn’t mainstream enough as seen in the casting of Asa Butterfield for the new Spider-Man and it will be a long time until Amadeus Cho is. Why not use a platform like the Marvel Netflix series, which hit it out of the park with Daredevil and Jessica Jones, and have an Asian Iron Fist?

4. Finally, we see white castings for Asian roles all the time. Scarlett Johannson for “Ghost in a Shell”. Emma Stone in Aloha. Tom Cruise as William Cage in “The Edge of Tomorow,” originally Kiriya Keiji in the novel that the film is based on. In the live-action “Akira” movie, Robert Pattinson was rumored to be Tetsuo and Andrew Garfield was supposed to be Kaneda. Why is the comic book community, a community I love, so abhorred by the idea of an Asian or bi-racial Danny Rand.

I agree with your final statement, that Asians should not be discouraged if Danny Rand is cast as caucasian. But I don’t think having an Asian Iron Fist is as negative as you think.

You know, I would love to see a Jimmy Woo and the Agents of ATLAS movie, or series, or whatever.

Does this show have the R-rated language of the “Alias” comic book?

I’m surprised by the seeming lack of interest in this show on several comics-related sites. Very few comments posted.

But maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. If the characters wore spandex, masks and capes, there would probably be more interest. Cinephile (film buff) sites seem to be more enthusiastic about “Jessica Jones.”

I respectfully disagree that this is a step down from Daredevil. I think this show has improved on all the shortcomings Daredevil had. And I truly adored Daredevil.

Agreed with Erik, while this show doesn’t have the same level of kinetic energy as DD, nor the same amount of opportunities to provide some truly great geek-out moments, I think Jessica Jones is a stronger series thus far. I just finished episode seven myself and am excited to see how this all plays out. It’s extremely intense and well-crafted.

Fair enough. In the comparison between the two, I just think Jessica Jones’ lows are much lower than Daredevil’s, which felt like a more consistent ride throughout. I just can’t muster much interest in the Trish Walker, Jeryn Hogarth, or neighbor plotlines. But YMMV as always.

I agree the show was a step down from Daredevil. I really just think that Jessica Jones doesn’t work in a newly forming MCU, it lost a lot of the charm of the source material while still managing capture the characters really well. I loved that Jeryn was played so strongly.

I didn’t like how it cut corners to ratchet the tension. In the source material Purple Man never raped Jessica, the scars were all from intense and well constructed mind games. The show took the easy route over and over, without making anything actually deeply dark. Implied drug abuse, etc… the show felt overly lazy to me. I was disappointed.

There were tons of tiny things to enjoy. I found the Patsy story well constructed, if badly acted and Luke Cage’s first fight scene was amazing. I don’t think anything in the show will bring me back for more.

I mostly agree with the pros and cons you listed. I don’t personally think the show is a step down from Daredevil. While I enjoyed both shows, I think the shows were different enough that it makes them difficult to compare fairly. Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of similarities to Daredevil, but I think Jessica Jones trades out a lot of comic fantasia and action in favor of exploring realistic people and drama. For example, you see the life of normal down-trodden citizens making reference to the “god-like” Avengers, there is the social fall out and how it affects people like Jessica and Luke, you see deep exploration of psychological problems like what Kilgrave did to Jessica. A lot of this minutia is ignored in comic book shows, even Daredevil to some degree.

Chaos McKenzie hits most of the issues I have taken with this show. Too many corners were cut from the source material. I understand why they had to do it in order to shoe horn it into the universe they are building, but with tropes galore and cliche after cliche I find myself less and less willing to forgive.

DareDevil going its own way didn’t seem like a betrayal of the cannon since it has decades of plots and characters to draw upon. (still hate that they killed Ben Urich) But Jessica Jones has approximately two mini-series worth of plot; they could have been slightly more faithful to some of the major plot points.

Before this turns into a full blown rant that makes me look like (more of) a lunatic fan boy, I would just like to say that the removal of the language from ALIAS really cramps the flow of the characters. It’s on Netflix. It’s rated TV-MA. Don’t be afraid to use the word fuck or cunt. Marvel wasn’t when it was in print, they shouldn’t in film. Not everything if for kids. The way this show is done is already not child friendly, so pulling the profanity punches is a weak move that serves nothing.

All in all I’m very disappointed. I had such high hopes after DD, and found this follow up extremely wanting. I fear Cage will follow this more than DD and also be a big let down. Ah well.

I loved it.
Loved Kristyn Ritter as Jessica (and I have to admit, I was on the fence when she was first cast). She eased my fears and made me a fan.
Trish “Patsy” Walker was a great character. Her backstory was kind of interesting, and I found myself really rooting for her during the series.
Anytime Jessica and Luke Cage were on screen, the show was just that much better. The chemistry between the two was perfect, and I am now even more pumped for the Luke Cage series, so we can dig into his life a little.
Hogarth was a queen B. I wanted to hate her so many times, but she was also so damn compelling to watch, I wanted to see what she would do next. Crazy shit going on there.
NUKE!!!! I didn’t like the character of Officer Simpson, and honestly felt his storyline was the weakest part of the show…but that’s just my opinion.
I found myself digging ‘crazy neighbor girl’. She had a lot of issues, but again, fun to watch.
I liked how Jessica and Luke’s relationship ended on a completely different note than the comic, and some of the other surprises.
I feel that Killgrave could have been much more menacing if he was played by someone other than Tennant. But everyone seems to love him in this role, so what do I know..?

All in all I bitched through all 13 episodes in two days. Had a ball watching some of my favorite characters come to life, and hope there is a Season 2 to explore those issues brought up towards the end of the series (Trish’s mom, IGN, etc).

This is a step way up from Daredevil. And Daredevil was solid. The characters in this have depth and the plot twists were truly shocking.

“As per Deadline, Mr. Freeze’s storyline will follow Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero‘s plot, where Mr. Freeze is motivated to find a solution to his dying wife Nora’s illness. This eschews the currently canon backstory laid out for him in the New 52, where Mr. Freeze was never married at all and instead fell in love with a cryogenically frozen woman.”

The New 52 makes everything it touches worse.

I feel that the Frank Miller-inspired Elektra/Bullseye/Kingpin stuff has been done to death, in comics and in a 2003 movie. I’d be more excited if they went back to the lighthearted Stan Lee/Gene Colan comics of the late ’60s. Bring back Mike Murdock, Stilt-Man and Leap-Frog, and I’d be happy.