How to use this Page

“DC universe V 5.0”?

1.0 Golden Age

2.0 Silver Age
2.7 Kryptonite No More/WGBS/The Bat-Penthouse/DC Bullet

3.0 Crisis on Infinite Earths
3.1 Zero Hour
3.9 Infinite Crisis (The 52)

4.0 New 52
4.2 Rebirth (not a reboot, but a correction, similar to Zero Hour)

Why is using Dr. Manhattan “ethically bankrupt?” CREATIVELY bankrupt maybe, but I’m not sure about the “ethically” bit. BTW, I’m not disagreeing. Just looking for clarity.

Hey whiny fanboys, guess what? You know that Watchmen story you love so much and think no one should ever touch it?

It still exists. It’s still there. No one rewrote it. You can reread it and jerk off to it all you want.

DC owns the characters, not Saint Alan. Get over it.

@Andrew A.,

Alan Moore has expressed that he doesn’t want there to be any other Watchmen comics. There may have even been a verbal agreement, which is why there were no other Watchmen comics for 25 years until Before Watchmen.

Of course DC has the right to do whatever they want, which is why this is ethically repugnant instead of illegal

Thereby retcon-ing the Watchmen movie into the DC Cinematic Expanded Universe or whatever it is they’re calling it, retroactively establishing a foundation for who-knows-what.

I don’t know why ComicsBeat included the apologist line to Bleeding Cool. If BC hadn’t run the story, spoilers wouldn’t be running rampant right now.

Torsten Adair – I’ve heard your v2.7 era labelled the “relevance era” for DC in the past. I like to think that there was some kind of secret crisis that happened some time around 1970 because the shift from Silver Age stories to the Denny O’Neil-type “relevance era” stories is abrupt enough that it feels like a different version of the same universe. I’d probably consider that a 3.0 shift rather than just a change in the minor version number myself.

My main criticism of DC Comics in the New 52 Era is one of backlist.
DC’s corporate DNA has long been fortified with Imaginary Stories and Elseworlds, and even rethinking obscure characters like Sandman, Animal Man, and Doom Patrol.
.
Those “alternative” titles are the core of backlist, which also drives versions in other media (Nolan’s Batman, the many animated DVDs, video games).
They also provide DC with a constant revenue stream with fixed costs…The Killing Joke, Watchmen, All-Star Superman…
That’s why Penguin paid Stephen King millions for each novel…there are guaranteed sales of each new novel, plus continual sales as new readers discover his older books. (Even if his new titles are at another publisher!)

After Flashpoint, DC’s new backlist has been negligible.
There is Snyder’s Batman run, which remains in print. Morrison’s Superman and Azarello’s Wonder Woman might join that list, but superhero soap opera is difficult to maintain an ongoing series, especially when a title changes its creative team.
The Earth One series is another rare example, but that line has been very sparse. Batman, Superman, Teen Titans, Wonder Woman; six years, nine volumes, four franchises. (It should not take two years to produce 128 pages of comics.)

Here’s a genetic disorder in DC’s DNA: imprints which are announced fully formed die at DC. CMX, Matrix/Helix, Impact/Red Circle/First Wave, Paradox and Piranha, Minx,Johnny DC/CN…
It’s only when a line is built on a solid foundation of established series like Vertigo was, that a line can be successful.
So, no, I wish Mr. Way success, but given the promotional muscle spent on Minx, Vertigo DEFY, and DC YOU, the results gained, my expectations are quite low.

As Mr. Khosla states, there’s a lot of money being left on the table.
And some of that money is being made by IDW and Boom! as they publish new comics stories based on Cartoon Network shows.

DC has the trinity up front and center I see.

It’s awesome that the crew that led DC off a cliff (by going back to the 90’s when the industry crashed) is going to rescue the company. There’s no real solution, since completely overhauling the editorial staff is next to impossible, but someone in editorial should have lost their job by now. Maybe Warners just wants yes men?

Or maybe making successful corporate super-hero comics is a hard job that comes with some failures sometimes, but you stand a better chance of success with experienced people in the important positions?

eh, It seems more likely that whatever gains they make with Rebirth it will be half as successful as the last one and twice as quickly diminished.

Especially with the accelerated publication schedule.

But yes, experienced people, important positions and all that.

Well, you’d better start hating it now, because who knows if you’ll get another chance when it actually comes out?

“The comic is written by Geoff Johns (Justice League) with art from Ethan Van Sciver (Green Lantern: Rebirth), Ivan Reis (Aquaman), Gary Frank (Batman: Earth One) and Phil Jimenez (Wonder Woman) ”

Doesn’t sound like a fresh start to me….

Superman kills someone. Oh, wait, they already did that in Injustice.
A lone wolf goes on a mass-shooting spree, killing a supporting character.
(Cue the “purple skins” scene from Green Lantern #76.)

Meh. I’m not sure DC can go in another direction with hype like this. The real news is the creative assignments. Admittedly, this big one shot doesn’t sound particularly new or different to me, either. Fingers crossed, and for cryin out loud, let’s see who the creators are already!

It’s Geoff Johns, so I’m gonna take a wild guess and assume someone gets an arm ripped off.

It seems there will be some sort of amalgam of past continuity in DC’s “Rebirth”. With that in mind, I’ve jotted down the top ten possibilities on what that “controversial scene” might be:

#10 – Superman uses his magical eye vision from Superman IV and builds a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

#9 – Bruce Wayne finally comes out of the closet and wears his Rainbow Batman costume from the 1950’s.

#8 – Wonder Woman brings her Lasso of Truth out of mothballs and uses it on candidates in the Presidential debates (all fail.)

#7 – Mighty Isis is detained by airport security for, well — being called Mighty Isis.

#6 – The Vigilante becomes a right-wing radio talk show host.

#5 – The Red Lanterns are discovered to be running a brothel in Amsterdam.

#4 – The Teen Titans are shut down by Child Protective Services,

#3 – A supporting female character from past continuity is NOT revived for the sole purpose of being raped, beaten or shot in the spine.

#2 – In order to complete All Star Batman and Robin — Rip Hunter, the Infinite Man, Clock King, Tick Tock Tyler The Hour-man, Chronos and the Time Trapper lock Jim Lee and Frank Miller into the Legion of Super-Heroes time bubble — give them all the time in the world — and they still can’t finish it.

And finally — the #1 possible “controversial scene” will be —

The Flash’s Mopee is blamed for the New 52.

A return to the pre-flashpoint DCU would be nice. keep what worked from Nu52, but incorporate it into the previous canon. And just bring back the old costumes for characters like Superman. going tacticool LINESLINESLINES and no underwear was cool at first, but it’s gotten old.

They’re going to show us that Uncle Ben is alive and served as an assassin for the Soviet Union.

He’s gonna kill Bruce Wayne, because he is a failure and needs a legacy. Douche.

I know – Max Lord will shoot Blue Beetle in the head.

No wait – Wonder Woman will strangle Max Lord with her magic lasso.

Oh I’ve got it – how about having Dr Light turn out to be a rapist?

Or maybe they can have Superboy beat the Golden Age Superman to death with his bare hands.

I guess to be fair to DC – they were selling a lot more books back when they were pulling cynical stunts like that than they are now, so I can see why they would be looking to recapture the “magic.”

I was very excited for DC Rebirth – it gives me Hope – which I haven’t had since… 2010? I haven’t been excited by a DC Comics announcement since 2010.

But then Dan says something abominably stupid like this. I’m still excited and hopeful, but less so than before this asinine comment.

Let’s hope it doesn’t involve any rape or dismemberment! but the track record suggests otherwise… ugh. :(

When has Dennis Barger ever been at Comics PRO?

My big question (outside of creative teams, of course): Will DC really only be producing 26 issues in June?

That seems to be the case, but then again, there were no final issue notifications in the May solicits. We know Omega Men is ending at #12, because Jim Lee stated so. But what about Midnighter, or Constantine: The Hellblazer, or Justice League of America? etc…I know JLA is getting relaunched in the Fall, but what happens in the meantime?

I’m assuming all New 52 launch books end at 52 and all DC You books end at 12, but 26 sure does seem like a (very welcome) small number of comics for DC to produce.

It was stated over on CBR that they’d be printing 32 monthly (some bi-weekly) titles. A shocking drop from their 52.

I’m wondering just how much of this rebirth will be a huge dropping off point for fans. Every single title is a top tier character book now. They’re all Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman oriented. With the exception of The Titans (Cyborg, Titans, Nightwing, etc.) B and C list characters (Swamp Thing, Midnighter, Martian Manhunter, etc. all gone. Sure those aren’t big draws for many folks, but I’ve always been a niche, weird character fan. I’m just not big into the main tent pole characters. So depending on the creative teams, this might be a big reason to actually pick up fewer DC titles, not more. We shall see…

“I love this world but there’s something missing”
Quality?
Something actually worth reading?
Effort?

I was at a Cpro once, total waste of money. ‘

Love
Dennis

I got a good laugh out of Tom’s comment; he’s harsh, but I agree with the sentiment. Bring back the pre-Flashpoint continuity and tell fresh, exciting stories with those time tested versions of the characters. You might be surprised how many lapsed readers you regain as a result. I think it’s one of the main reasons as a whole Marvel is kicking DC’s ass in sales right now. Continuity.

I will never find the calls by superhero fans for more creativity in their favorite corporate-owned multimedia franchise characters to be nothing short of hilarious.

Focusing on core characters may make sense for comics sales, but if they don’t build up B- and C-list characters how will they launch their catalogue of IP into other media where the real money is?

Thank you for writing this, Heidi. It’s probably the most objective DC thing I’ve read on Comicsbeat and I mean that sincerely. It confirms where DC is going now – not for new readers like me. Long boxes says it all, don’t know anyone with one of those. It’s a good jumping off point for me. I loved DC You and the way the New 52 made DC accessible for me for the first time ever.

That was…really too long an exchange of Twitters to digest for an article. I would have found a summary with one or two excerpted tweets more effective.

And, not to ignore the wider problem this article presents but enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know…will Batman ’66 and Sensation will continue to be released digitally, or will they be cancelled as well as the floppy reprints?

DC is still publishing comic books? ;)

Hi John,

Thanks for your comment. I got overzealous with the tweets– didn’t realize how long the conversation was because it seemed much shorter in my head! I’ve parred them down some.

According to solicits, the December issues for these titles will be the final issues for all formats. I will look into this further and clarify if I hear anything to the contrary.

I doubt that the Digital First comics will continue.
The numbers seem to have been calculated from “can we sell enough via digital + paper + graphic novel?”
If those numbers don’t add up to a profit, then it’s not going to continue with just one format.
In the old days, it was “newsstand + direct market + subscriptions”. Many marginal titles had better profits when newsstand copies were omitted (Ka-Zar, Micronauts, Moon Knight).

How well did DC market these new titles?
Why did Ms. Marvel become an overnight sensation, but not Prez?

I see the point TalesOfRacShade is making — I’m one of (I assume) many people who pick stuff up late, or purchase and then read late. I picked up a couple of the relaunched titles in June and didn’t get to reading any of them until Labor Day. (That’s what happens when your to-read pile is taller than the nightstand it sits on.) Now I’m going back to catch up on the ones I liked, but the damage has been done and the books that didn’t show strong interest by August will be canceled. Because most books simply don’t get a fighting chance, they’re often gone by the time their audience finds them.

It’s just the nature of the beast, though. I think it’s more of a general issue with monthly superhero comics and its sales channels than any bad decisions made at DC.

A lot of ground covered here:

Sad to see both Batman ’66 and Sensation Comics go. I bought both occasionally, but they were pretty confused packages.

The Batman book had the trappings of the TV show and good likenesses of the actors involved, but *unlike* the show it was played straight, not camp. So what audience was this for? I assume the nostalgia crowd (and in this day and age, that can’t be a very big crowd), but then it didn’t go all in. Sort of like putting on a production of Grease and taking out the songs. The stories were fine, but without the parody, it ended up being pretty mild (though the Kevin Smith/Ty Templeton mini with the Green Hornet was fun and the Len Wein/Harlan Ellison/Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez special was quite beautiful.)

Sensation Comics had a similar schizophrenic profile. Some of the best, accessible, all-ages Wonder Woman stories in a long time, unfortunately behind covers that often portrayed The Amazon Princess as a crazed warrior splattered with blood. I know covers in comics have a long history of not reflecting the exact contents, but I can’t imagine the audience for either one of those types of books being satisfied with that combination.

It makes me both sad and angry to hear these stories of sexual harassment behind the scenes. Especially when it involves people who are working on characters that are supposed to be heroes — examples of our best ideals, not our worst demons. DC, if this is going on, please get to the bottom of it and root it out. Not only for the sake of your workplace, but for Superman, Wonder Woman and all the other inspiring icons that the world looks up to.

And Torsten, I think Ms. Marvel had the advantage of a lot of media coverage outside of comics *and* being a superhero comic in the Marvel Universe. Prez is on its’ own in its’ own little corner of the world with no capes and tights.

The problem with DC is that they don’t give the smaller books a big marketing push. Although, I did notice that there was some attempt for The Omega Men with it having a big spread in the back pages for a month or two. Hopefully this is the kind of title that does alright in TPB and warrants a new miniseries in the not too distant future.

All of the Digital First titles have had limited lifespans, such as Adventures of Superman and Legends of the Dark Knight. Sensation had 48 digital weekly releases. That’s no small potatoes. After each one wraps up, a new one with a new character comes around the corner. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Flash or GL anthology Digital First series next up to bat.

For the record, Cullen Bunn confirmed on Twitter that “Lost Army” ends with issue six.

@Hardy: Ouch. So Lost Army wasn’t just cancelled; it was stealth cancelled. That must hit hard for the creators, to say nothing of readers who invested in the story.

Yeah, the Omega Men news hit me kind of hard, particularly after having been geared up for a twelve-issue run with a clearly laid out beginning, middle, and end. Add my voice to the choir of being cheated as a reader to be paying money for what will never be more than half a story.

And Alex DeCampi’s remarks just make me sad as a consumer. I loved Sensation Comics for its diverse storytelling, its introducing me to the work of a number of spectacular creators, and its being the iconic Wonder Woman book that I’ve felt had been missing from the stands since Gail Simone’s run on the title ended. (Azzarello and Chiang are a good “alternate” take, but separated from their storytelling, the N52 character is Generic Warrior Woman #49, not Wonder Woman.) Agreed with the poster who lamented the covers never matching the tone. That’s been a real sticking point for me with the book.

Basically, what made Sensation distinct is that between its covers, it was a feminist book. De Campi’s revelations about the Superman office at DC… I sincerely wish I could say I were surprised to hear her statements out loud. And it saddens me. The DiDio / Lee / Harras regime needs to topple. It feels to me like they set this new direction up for failure from the get-go, between the timing, the horrifyingly awful marketing, and now the company’s failure to see through on their own promises to their readers…

Is there any good news to come out of DC? I mean… Batgirl, Black Canary, and Doctor Fate are cool, and they’re still going. There’s that, right…?

“Characters like Superman don’t look right”

cop out excuse, considering Marvel can genderswap a main character and still pull in decent sales figures.

I think DC (mostly Didio) needs to realize that the titles and content aren’t the issue here. Marketing, promotion and a long-range plan that won’t be rebooted at the first sign of trouble are more integral to building and maintaining new readership.

The move to LA was so a fresh, new opportunity for DC to market itself as the thinking reader’s big-two company. Don’t let Didio and his outdated ideas of what comics should look like scupper the grand plans.

@Torsten: “I don’t think DC is thinking about the teen and kids market.” Correct. I’ve been grumbling about this for 10 years, my son is now 13 and the only DC product he’s interested in is Teen Titans Go. The New DC line was too bleak and dystopian for me to buy, so I definitely wouldn’t buy it for him.

Which is really too bad, because he LOVES the Arrow and the Flash on TV, but aside from the tie-in comics, there’s very little output from DC that I’d consider buying for him on a regular basis. The DC You titles appear to be a little more attractive, but they are outliers to the main line too.

And the increasingly prevalent $3.99 price tag? Yikes.

When will Warner pull the trigger and fire Dan and Jim?

My buying habit with DC titles has shrunk, extremely way downward.
It used to be Batman, Batman & Robin, Batman, Inc. and Batwoman (by JH Williams only.) and some infrequently issues of Action/Superman and it’s related titles.

Now it is just Batman and Robin, Son of Batman, Batman: Earth One vol. 1 & 2.

Marvel? I don’t recall when was the last one, Daredevil, maybe…

Independents from Boom!, Image, IDW, among few other publisher exponentially rose.

Sigh. I really wanted the DC You line to work. I know there was a lot of upset about the Superman line, but, goshdangit, he was going to go back to his blue and reds eventually! There are Underoos to sell! But fans have been tired of new and revamped Superman for a while. This has been brewing since before Infinite Crisis. I think fans could have gone along with Commissioner Gordon as Batman for a bit because of trust in Snyder and Capullo, but somehow the fact that Greg Pak did a bang-up job on Planet Hulk and great work on Superman/Batman seemed to get lost in the information shuffle. Everyone was just looking for a reason to hate on DC for not giving them traditional Superman (and Warner too from the broken record complaints about Man of Steel). Sigh…

But despite all the great reviews the initial wave of books got, the biggest hurdle nowadays is the price point of keeping up with these books from month to month. As an older reader, I can remember being on a student budget and almost literally being able to buy the entire line of both DC and Marvel with a bunch of independents thrown in. I wanted to be be able to do that with these new books, but the price point is too high. It’s become a rich person’s hobby.

Several things I agree with in the comments, particularly that DC publishes far too many bleak/dystopian comics. Not that everything has to be happy and light, but still . . .

Some mistakes I think DC has made: (1) The New Gods are EVERYWHERE. I may be in the minority, but a little bit of the New Gods goes a long way, and, with the exception of Mister Miracle, they really work best in their own corner of the multiverse; (2) Not enough titles for younger readers. Even Bat-Mite and Bizarro, two of the lighter DCYou titles, are rated T; (3) Ignoring its publishing history. Yes, the multiverse was created in 1961, “un-created” in 1985, and re-created in 2005-6, but DC has ignored the original Earth-Prime, -1, -2, -3, -4, -12, -C, -C-Minus, -S, -X, et al. designations by renaming (Earths Prime, C, S, and X are now Earths 33, 26, 5, and 10, respectively, according to Grant Morrison’s map of the multiverse), repopulating (Earth 2 now features characters with the same name as the JSA but aren’t THE (original) JSA, likewise for Earth 3 and the Crime Syndicate), or remaining vague (Earth 1). Having Convergence end with an “everything happened” ending and saying those other Earths are “out there somewhere” didn’t help, ’cause I’ve got plenty of comics that show the current Earth 2 isn’t the Earth 2 I read about when I was much younger. While I don’t believe everything has to be in continuity, I do believe that if you’re going to use continuity for storytelling purposes, it should be used consistently, and that includes the naming of the various Earths; (4) Art vs. Story. This has become a hot topic in recent years. It was mentioned in this article that Curt Swan’s art wouldn’t fly today, and, sadly, that is probably true. However, the man was a draftsman who didn’t need a two-page spread to portray an action sequence either. You ever time yourself to see how long it takes to read a comic book today? I recently read all 26 issues of Earth 2: World’s End in one sitting. Average reading time per issue? Seven-and-a-half minutes! A 20-page story in the ’70s took longer than that to read. Comics are a visual medium, and I enjoy looking at the art, but when I read a comic I do expect to see words too. Yes, older comics had some unnecessary exposition (” . . . and with a right hook, the Darknight Detective knocked the Joker unconscious!” as an example), but words are still a vital component; and (5) Trying to maintain a monthly schedule for all books. What happened to publishing some titles only 4, 6, 8, 9 or 10 times a year? I am all for having my favorite titles released on a monthly basis, but the story is told of Bat-artist Jim Aparo, who could only produce 20 pages per month. When launching Batman and the Outsiders, readers were informed from the onset that Aparo, who often inked and lettered too, could only produce 20 pages per month and that there would be times when a fill-in artist would be used or that backups would appear. The days when an artist would have an uninterrupted run of 25 or 50 comics (or more!) are long gone, but if DC really wants Writer X, Penciller Y, and Inker Z to be the creative team on a title, maybe they need to consider publication frequencies other than months.

Just my two cents, of course.

They still publish Batman and Superman comics right? They gonna be just fine. This cyclical drama is weak.

There’s great passion, insights and ideas on this comment thread, but I wonder what the make up of Beat comment-ers is? Seems like there’s a disproportionate amount of older/longtime DC readers here. (Like me, quite frankly).

The Beat is definitely an old geezer site for sure, Ed. OR at least the commenters are!

Not that there’s anything wrong with that, Heidi….

Good for Tony! I hope that everything works out between him and DC Comics.

Today in TONY ISABELLA’S BLOGGY THING…Cats and dogs, living together: http://tonyisabella.blogspot.com/2015/07/black-lightning-2015.html

(Yes, I am shamelessly stealing Jeff’s very funny line from Ghostbusters.)

[…] Isabella to confirm via Facebook that he and DC were back on speaking terms (as publicized by The Beat’s Jeff Trexler). Isabella later told the story of the reconciliation on his personal […]

Wow. I guess if they couldn’t be killed off, they’d just get written into the ground instead. Dan Didio sucks.

[…] of the April release Convergence covers Darth Vader to exceed 200,000 in sales Empire returns Didio’s DC hitlist The complete history of comic book movies Chp 1 New Adrian Tomine this Fall Anka & Wada drop […]

Kyle Raynor
Connor Hawke
Nightwing
Tempest
Young Justice
Dr. Fate & Fury
Atom Smasher

What is this bizarre fixation that DC execs have with killing legacy characters and, if I’m reading the top item correctly, scuttling marriages? It’s as if anything that didn’t exist in 1965 is in constant danger of being rubbed out by the silver age nostalgia mafia.

The obsession with killing the Supermarriage is actually kind of creepy. There was nothing wrong with Superman being married to Lois Lane. It was a different kind of story with realistic tension where Lois was treated as an equal player in the know. And it was killed so that middle aged men having a midlife crisis could relive their fanboy youth by hooking Superman up with Wonder Woman. If that’s not the biggest example of editorial midlife crisis meddling then I don’t know what is.

I was just a little staggered by the dissonance between these two (edited) paragraphs when it seems pretty clear that September’s stunt had (at best) mediocre sell-through:

“You look at the comic stores themselves, and I don’t know if I could own one, to be honest with you, when you look at 400 periodical products coming out every month. How do you choose which are the ones that are going to go there and how do you manage that system, especially in a non-returnable business? [...]

September was an extraordinary, wonderful month for us [...] I think the strength of our September numbers really shows it was a really strong partnership between DC Comics and the retail stores to make sure there was proper inventory on the shelves to get out to the fans.”

My brain just went “Derp! Derp! Derp!” for a few minutes after reading that.

Sadly, the DM over-bought (perhaps dangerously so when I see offers from retailers to wholesale copies for $1 a copy… and they’re not getting takers!) based upon speculation and that “extraordinary, wonderful month” is coming out of the bottom line of a lot of stores.

-B

Brian , our store did fine with the latest Sept stunt , as good as last year. We are still doing re-orders on many of the titles , weekly.

I do think , a few retailers , were “greedy” and over-ordered for their shops, but they seem to be the same retailers , who go “nutso” on the Marvel plateaus for variants, they seem to never learn.

But hey , they can run their shop anyway they want , and they all seem to remain in biz , so who am I to comment. I was in a friends shop today and saw stacks of the Death Of Wolvie issues, he seemed not to be worries, said they would sell over the next year

How successful is it really? I was under the impression that they’d lost ground about a year after the reboot and mostly were propped up by gimmicks and Bat-books.

I wouldn’t say Wonder man was the worst Avenger, but I agree he was the worst dressed.

Worst Avenger of all time?! e-hem, are you forgetting a little character named… Starfox!

That’s a good call, JRC

The worst Avenger, or one of the worst, at least, IMO, was Gilgamesh. When a storyline doesn’t work, everyone in it looks “Bleah!” Wonder Man was good in Englehart’s WEST COAST AVENGERS.

srs

What about D-Man? Or “The Forgotten One”

Thanks for the plug for my Broken Frontier ‘Small Pressganged’ column Steve! Anything that helps me put some extra eyes on the multitude of amazing small press/self-published/micropublished books out there at the moment is hugely appreciated.

Good to see Astrodog get a mention. Great strip from one of the most under rated cartoonists in the UK.

He’s nowhere near the worst Avenger. I’d say he’s easily mid-range. There are a ton of Avengers worse than him (Dr Druid, Black Knight, Wolverine, Two-Gun Kid,etc). And his black and red suit isn’t bad at all, and he looks awesome when they draw him all purple kirby dots.

Seconding what Andy said. Thanks for spreading the small press love, Steve!

Thanks, Steve. I couldn’t get to a computer all day but I know the Beat was in good hands.

I hope he remembers his “change is good to renew energy” mantra when they finally hand him his walking papers.

We know DiDio is all about Rubicon

So…did not one person call them out directly and say “Why is DC Comics against showing a woman who loves another woman make it a legally binding union?” This question needs to be phrased in a way they can’t squirrel out of, and asked often until they answer. This time it’s rather important. I don’t understand a company that would turn a character with a family and children gay for the New52 newness of it, but considers lesbian marriage a bad thing.

How come Animal Man can be married with kids and the gays can’t? What double standard? Didio is a clown those creative shake-ups are brining a lot of fresh energy to books, right? New offer! DC is looking for someone to draw a page with Kate in a bathtub sans the batcostume. Va Va VA-Voom! Creative energy! New talent! Maybe you? Can you draw seriously DC needs artists to fire…. I mean hire.

My point being proven by Jeremy Henderson.

I wouldn’t be surprised if DiDio is a wrestling fan. Sometimes he seems to take an almost Vince McMahon level of pleasure in playing the heel and villain for all the ridiculous hate thrown his way.

And as much as people with your attitude want it to be true, I seriously doubt his job is any danger anytime in the near future. These are their numbers from July:

6 months: + 8.3%
1 year : + 1.7%
2 years : + 31.6%
5 years : + 25.4%
10 years: + 32.4%

It’s been 2004 since his first promotion with the company from being hired in 2002 and their numbers have only gone up. So you’re wish fulfillment will likely have to hold a little bit longer.

It’s really easy for people to fly off the rails and furiously type things like “THIS IS THE LAST STRAW I’M NEVER BUYING DC AGAIN ,” so I’ll say this: As a serious fan of DC Comics throughout most of my life, I bought literally every first issue of the New 52 launches and have slowly but surely dropped almost every book. It’s not just because of stunts like this (though, there’s certainly more than enough of that to go around), but also because of a general decline in quality following the relaunch that you can practically FEEL is the direct result of editorial tampering. Or, worse possibly: a complete disinterest from the creators? Who knows.

Batwoman was essentially the last book from them I bought on a regular basis (I’ve been buying Snyder’s Batman but haven’t read it since the end of Death of the Family), and they’ve now completely burned off any interest I had in it. Meanwhile, Marvel is producing probably the best monthlies I’ve seen from either company in years, so I’m still a happy comic buyer, but it really sucks that the characters I grew up with are appearing in such crap these days. That DiDio is showing yet again that he couldn’t care less about fan opinions is even more distressing. (And to think, his OMAC series is still a New 52 standout for me! Sigh.)

“Why is DC Comics against showing a woman who loves another woman make it a legally binding union?”

They aren’t. I don’t know how much clearer they can be then saying the departure of the creative team had nothing to do with the character’s sexuality and everything to do with editorial and creative differences. Which part of “they don’t want to marry any of their characters” is not clear form the above?

@Erik Scott: It doesn’t surprise me at all that sales have increased. “Injustice,” an infamously dreadful comic, sells like hotcakes, right? But that’s sort of the thing: Stunt marketing (like the 3D covers) and mandated crap might push up the numbers, but it alienates a certain base of serious fans that perhaps shouldn’t be discounted even if they’re not exactly moving the sales needle in significant ways. Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, for example, have shown that you can sell a quality story, no?

It seems pretty clear that no matter how you phrase the question, DiDio will answer a different one in his reply.

@Bunnicula – Except determining “quality” as you have stated is largely subjective. I happen to like Injustice. I also like Snyder and Morrison. I also like Batwoman and Wonder Woman. I also like the Green Lantern Books, and Gail Simone’s books and any number of other things. I buy Image books up the wazoo right. You couldn’t pay me to read a Marvel book right now, because I think Hickman and Bendis are two of the most boring writers in the history of comics, and they seem to be running most of the ship there now, just like Johns and Snyder seem to be at DC. Different strokes.

It’s IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. IMPOSSIBLE. For ten people who think Snyder is the best thing to happen to Batman in years I can easily find you ten people who think his work is boring, trite, uninspired and unimaginative. For every person who thinks Grant Morrison is a writing god, I can find you another person who says his work is impenetrable. If you think anyone at DC, including DiDio and Harras, start everyday setting out to release 52 shitty books a month, you need to find some perspective. Do I disagree with a lot of the editorial decisions being made – absolutely I do. But I’m also not in charge and life and situations in every workplace are more complex then just right and wrong; good guy and bad guy. Black and white morality doesn’t exist in real life like it does in comics. It just doesn’t. People seem to forget that. Often, When it comes to DiDio and DC.

If people want to continue to have an opinion that DiDio is just existing at DC to run things into the ground and that he clearly has some nefarious plot to ruin the company, then good look living in that fantasy world where you’ve made him the real life Lex Luthor, essentially. It’s getting to the point where it’s about as hard to have rational conversations with these things with people as it is to have any sort of rational conversation with someone on a Fox News article.

This doesn’t pass the smell test. Further, DiDio actually threw a bunch of back-handed bombs at the Batwoman crew over the past two years. Read those again; especially the various permutations of: “Eisner or not, we need the books to be exciting, entertaining, and part of a shared universe.”

Aside from the laughability of the “anti-marriage policy” non-policy company line, clearly the implication is that they weren’t exciting, entertaining, and part of a shared universe. Despite the awards that the outgoing Batwoman team has won, specifically. (Maybe those gay awards don’t matter to DC).

And everyone jumps to the clear example of married Buddy Baker. But, wasn’t the New52 Aquaman married to Mera? I never got the series, but weren’t they still King and Queen (and not in the high-school homecoming king/queen voting sense of a paired couple)? I mean, that would be an even larger A-lister and series headliner than Animal Man was at the time of New52′s launch.

Silly But True

Reading this I get the impression that Didio doesn’t hold Williams in particularly high regard.

The comment section of that Hollywood Reporter article is terrifying. Casts the tribal-comics commenting/blog scene in an incredibly favorable light.

Taste: it’s something you’re born with you either have it or you don’t.

In other words the Breaking Bad line says it all, DD has got to go.

@archway – Dunno why I had to check that hollywood reporter article out, but I did, and WOW did that hurt to read. Anyway, didio sounds like a third grader in an argument… I imagine he was mostly thinking “I’m rubber and you’re glue…” while writing those. My biggest gripe is confusing “supporting a character” with micromanaging your writers. It’s well within his rights, the characters are WB property after all. I just think if you only give the top five or so writers any leeway in how a story plays out, the disparity between those writers’ books and the rest of the titles just grows more and more.

I enjoyed the fake-out of Finn turning into the new Constantine, complete with sideburns, magic, smoking, etc. Lots of cleverness in #300.

I honestly can’t remember what the dart gun at the end is supposed to do, or where it came from. That might help me interpret the last few pages.

I still think it’s too bad DC didn’t have enough faith in its readers’ ability to understand two different versions of JC at once. They didn’t need to be mutually exclusive.

Carter says:

“I still think it’s too bad DC didn’t have enough faith in its readers’ ability to understand two different versions of JC at once. They didn’t need to be mutually exclusive.”

These are the same people that believed for decades that readers would be confused if both a Justice Society and a Justice League series were being simultaneously published.

That was a great review and fitting tribute.

This is picky, but I wouldn’t call those pre-Vertigo issues of Hellblazer DCU books. Sure, they were DC, and the imprint didn’t exist yet. But they were not set in the DCU, or in a world that had super heroes in it. So for all that Didio or others would like to say that Constantine is returning to his DCU “roots”, really they are only talking about a handful of appearances in Swamp Thing (versus 25 plus years of Hellblazer existing on its own), and in those appearances, there were probably only a few pages where he interacted with DCU characters other than Swamp Thing. The character’s time in the DCU feels more like a footnote at this point than roots.

David: That’s not correct. Hellblazer WAS set in the DCU. He wasn’t separate from it. He crossed over with Swamp Thing, Sandman and other DC titles.

Milligan’s entire run was crap, and the final storyline was simply awful. Thank god it’s finally over–Milligan can no longer crap all over a once-great set of characters.

I bought every issue since issue 1. It’s one of the few comics that I bought issue after issue. I remember the joys of the first issues. Just great! I thought Miligans run was great! He brought a touch of humanity to the bastard. I ALSO liked that he confirmed Johns age, Constatine is in his 60s. He says it in issue 297 or 298? He was 40 back in 91? 92?
I’m going to re-read the last few issues again to get the full flavor of the story, but I thought it was a good ending.
Oh, and one nitpick…wasn’t JC’s first appearance in Crisis of Infinty Earths? Issue 4 or 5? Just a few panels.

[...] The Beat – Hellblazer #300 [...]

Re: Morn

Constantine may have been put in some DCU comics concurrent to Hellblazer (like Books of Magic) where he interacted with DCU characters, but it was clear from the outset that Hellblazer was set in its own world, and not one that had superheroes in it. And even when Swamp Thing made one of his few appearances in Hellblazer, they didn’t reminisce about their time on the Justice League satellite. It wasn’t even clear that this Swamp Thing was the same one that had been in the DCU. In the same way that, long after the Vertigo launch, when Swamp Thing would occasionally appear in Hellblazer, he was just another mystic figure that Constantine had history with. Swamp Thing was in the world of the Hellblazer book that way, but that world was not the DCU.

Even if Constantine had a number of appearances in the DCU, Hellblazer was never a book set in the DCU. It is a small distinction, but I think an important one for the history of Hellblazer as a title and what was remarkable about it from the start. And that was by design. Berger and Delano set it up that way. Not only to give it a voice distinct from Swamp Thing, but also from the DCU as a whole. In that way it was one of the titles that proved the concept of what a Vertigo imprint could be.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I personally think he could have easily just inhabited two universes and don’t see the problem with that either. As for whether Constantine pre-Vertigo was DCU, maybe it’s better titled proto-DCU. It’s really not clear enough that it’s a separate universe before Vertigo to say that Hellblazer had its own universe, in my opinion. Saying he’s returning to “DCU roots”, though, is pretty much a whitewashing of fears about how the character might change (aside from age). This whole subject is full of grey areas.
I haven’t found anything about Constantine appearing in other comics before Swamp Thing, though it’s possible be appeared previously in Swamp Thing? (in issue #25? of Swamp Thing before #37 though I have yet to visually confirm this).

Yeah, the whole “DCU roots” is whitewashing but there’s very little ambiguity (to me) about whether or not Hellblazer started off in the DCU. The guy played a role in Crisis on Infinite Earths for goodness, sake. Just because the book didn’t feature a crossover with Green Lantern doesn’t set it in a different universe. Heck, we could easily play “Six Degrees of Superman” to link Hellblazer into the DCU (Children’s Crusade is a pretty good starting point). “It wasn’t even clear that this Swamp Thing was the same one that had been in the DCU”? One word: Tefe.

The important historical distinction is that Hellblazer (and other proto-Vertigo books) succeeded *despite* being placed in a super-marginalized corner of the DCU.

It’s only through later, insane editorial policy that a bright-line division of appearances was ever made (probably some marketing in there, too, so people buying Sandman could still feel superior to people buying Batman). I don’t think it was until Flashpoint that anyone explicitly said, “these are different worlds”.

We can debate it if we want, but when I interviewed Karen Berger for an article on the 20th anniversary of Hellblazer, she clearly stated that when she launched Hellblazer and hired Delano to write it, the plan from the beginning was to set it in its own world. However the Constantine character was used in other books before or after, Hellblazer was not set in the same world as Superman. So I will defer to Berger on that one.

And even though Constantine the character got borrowed out of Hellblazer to go be the surrogate to make Tefe, notice how Tefe never showed up in Hellblazer. Nor did Swamp Thing, in any of his rare appearances, go on about (nor talk about past adventures they’d had with superheroes). Swamp Thing could appear in HB without it becoming a DCU book.

However Constantine might have appeared, the world of Hellblazer was its own thing. That was by design, or at least, that is what the person who established it told me. I would need to dig to find the quote, but that was done not just to make Hellblazer a distinct world, but also to give it an identity separate from Swamp Thing (which may be why I don’t think Swamp Thing even gets mentioned for the first 6 or 7 issues).

That’s an interesting insight from Berger- thanks.
I think this just illustrates the fact that unless a separate universe has it’s own name or own imprint, it’s very hard to designate. Thankfully they eventually did that with Hellblazer which helps avoid confusion.

@David D. Thanks David! That’s a really fascinating historical/process aspect of Hellblazer. Of course, I think they did a pretty terrible job of maintaining that idea but that poor maintenance is, itself, an interesting look at how editorial and marketing decisions can affect story and purity of ideas in a shared universe.

In the collected Hellblazer TPs, they include the two issues of Swamp Thing involving the conception of Tefe. So I get the feeling that, even years later, most people on the inside never “got” that HB was supposed to be its own thing.

I hope that the new Constantine fails hard. What a dumb fucking move by DC. I really can’t wait for Nelson, DiDio, Lee, and Harris to leave the company.

Re: Hannah and Carter

Thanks. And I definitely agree it was a very strange line and hard to see line drawn between Hellblazer as a book, and the way in which the character would still appear and interact with DC characters in books like Swamp Thing and Books of Magic. As well as the difference in character between the Constantine of Hellblazer and the Constantine that was in other books- the Constantine in Swamp Thing seemed very powerful and wise, as his role in that book was to be a mentor figure. Whereas the Constantine in Hellblazer was more down to Earth- he was tired, rumpled, and often scrambling to outsmart and outcon forces larger than himself. Which is more in line with being a lead character rather than the Obi-Wan figure.

I think, pre-Vertigo, the various “Bergerverse” books and their characters moved at different rates out of the DCU and into their own continuity. Pre-Vertigo, what we would think of as the DCU characters started to appear less and less in Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Doom Patrol until, shortly before the Vertigo imprint launch, they weren’t there at all. And Hellblazer seemed to lead the pack on that, by having its own world (albeit one that Swamp Thing could poke into) from the start.

By the way, if you don’t mind me making a plug, and perhaps if anyone is still reading this far into the comments they are enough of a Hellblazer fan to be interested– the two part article on the 20th anniversary of Hellblazer that I did for the now-defunct Comics Now! magazine is still online at the following links. It is an overview of Hellblazer era by era right up to the anniversary (basically right before Milligan started) and includes original quotes by many of the people involved who I had the pleasure of speaking to.
Part One: http://comicgeekspeak.com/articles/hellblazerPart1_1.php
Part Two: http://comicgeekspeak.com/articles/hellblazerPart2_1.php

Thanks very much David! Those observations about differences in Constantine’s personality are really spot-on. And thanks for the articles. We usually don’t allow links in comments, but in this case, these are really helpful for the argument we and others are pursuing about universes and since I’m a comics scholar too I appreciate you sharing those resources.

For my money JC definitely started out in themainstream universe. He appears in the first story arc of ‘Sandman’ – a story arc which later features Martian Manhunter and Scott Free, as late as issue 90-something in the ‘Critical Mass’ arc he alludes to ‘the big green fella’ and has a meeting with the Phantom Stranger.
Oh, there’s also the ‘Trenchcoat Brigade’ stories where he’s seen teamed with Mr E, Phantom Stranger and Doctor Occult.
For my money ‘Hellblazer’ occupies a similar corner of the DC universe that Punisher and 80′s Daredevil do/did in the Marvel universe. Part of it, but rarely impacting on wider events.

Always got the sense that the three Liefeld books were a temporary thing to set up a big story or new book. With Grifter and Deathstroke joining Team 7, that seems all the more likely.

Swords and Sorcery definitely seems like the most interesting of the new crop (with good timing, as I’ve just given up on the current DC teen books), but much will depend on the announcement of creative teams to see what direction these books are going.

(And hey, now that Amethyst Showcase volume finally makes sense, huh?)

Y’know, I hadn’t even recognised Grifter’s real name amongst that lineup. Good catch! It looks like DC are a little worried about their ‘Edge’ line of titles, with the recent fuxx over Stormwatch and now this shuffle. Hopefully the books will be good, and they can start to move it forward.

Swo/Sor is going to be excellent, I can feel it already.

If you like Amethyst, why would you want her to rejoin the DC charnel house?

This is the mindset we are dealing with at DC…think about what you are about to read…

The following is a piece of an interview with Dan DiDio over at Newsarama discussing Zero Month and the debut of these 4 new books…

Here it is….
And then lastly, we had so much great success with the “Night of the Owls” storyline, that we picked up a very clear, new character spin-off, which is Talon. And that shows our commitment to showing new ideas, new characters, new stories and something that didn’t have a pre-conceived notion that existed before the launch of the New 52. This is a brand new concept, and a brand new series with a brand new character. And I think that’s important too, because it shows that we’re not just going to keep rehashing old territory, but really start to pave new ground as well.

This man, with a straight face, claims that DC’s commitment to new characters, new stories and new ideas…as well as brand new concepts and the “not rehasing of old territory” IS A BATMAN SPIN-OFF???

The only one of those that might work as a description is new character…but the rest??? Are you serious…A BATMAN SPIN OFF is your idea of a new concept? A new idea? “Not rehasing old territory”????? All Batman spinoffs are rehasing old territory…its using the Bat Brand to sell a book that otherwise would not sell.

Wow…when it comes to original ideas these guys really are drowning in the short end of the kiddie pool…

The Christy Marx/Aaron Lopresti Amethyst reboot might be interesting, but I’m disappointed that Didio (according to USA Today) is writing the Phantom Stranger.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2012-06-08/Talon-comic-book-series-Batman-crossover/55444770/1

Brent Anderson’s art matched with J. M. DeMatteis as writer? Now THAT would have been a title that could appeal to both DCU and Vertigo fans.

Amethyst is looking up. Aaron Lopresti seems like a perfect fit for a book like this, and Christy Marx–well, she co-wrote an ElfQuest story with Wendy Pini once, so she’s okay in my book.

Not so sure about the back-up, but I’ll wait to hear more.

Brent Anderson on Phantom Stranger only reminds me of the fact that we were supposed to get a new Astro City ongoing. Kurt Busiek seemed confident that event if DC didn’t want it anymore, they’d still get it out. What happened with that?

On a somewhat unrelated note, half the time I try to visit The Beat these days, the site is offline–what’s up with that?

“Which means the market has no place for an ongoing Storm, Black Widow, Hepzibah or Spoiler series, but is happy to support Amethyst.”

Yeah, I can’t believe DC isn’t publishing ongoing series for Storm, Black Widow, and Hepzibah in particular.

The “new 52″ has failed to pick up new readers. From my examination of the sales numbers, no title has picked up any new readers as it went along. All the titles peaked at #1 and either are fairly steady (the top 5-10) or fell dramatically (some losing over half their readers). The point of the reboot was to gain new and lapsed readers. Now DC is basically canceling the bottom 4-8 titles every six months and launching new #1 issues to get more existing comics fans to buy them. Are any of these comics going to appeal to someone who is not already a comics insider?

DC is getting mass-media attention, but these days with the 24/7 news cycle that is not much of an accomplishment. Their zero issues are getting the same attention as “Indian believers swallow live fish as asthma cure”.

This reboot experiment pretty much has convinced me that the comics industry will be gone as soon as the movies aren’t hot at the box office. The media conglomerate who own the comics companies will fold the comics properties into their larger publishing divisions and close the comics companies.

I am a “lapsed reader” from the 80s who rediscovered comics in 2009 or so – I’ve been looking at the sales figures over the past couple of years, and comics are in a death spiral. The only way either Marvel or DC can boost sales is to sell more comics to the same fans.

The only thing so far in the “new 52″ that looks interesting is the new Firehawk. Yet the writing on Fury of Firestorm 8-9 is atrociously awfully bad. Here you introduce an exciting new character with real potential and … do NOTHING with her. Where do I send my proposal for a young French woman thrust into the spotlight as a hero, dealing with her country’s “cheese-eating surrender monkey” image, desire to remain true to her country while loving life in NYC, struggling with whether to finish college or be a superhero, and trying to shape her image in the press? I mean, this thing just writes itself, and DC blew it.

“Brent Anderson on Phantom Stranger only reminds me of the fact that we were supposed to get a new Astro City ongoing. Kurt Busiek seemed confident that event if DC didn’t want it anymore, they’d still get it out. What happened with that?”

He is having health problems, which have been defying easy diagnosis. He seems optimistic that upcoming gall bladder surgery will help, but is not currently writing.

“He is having health problems, which have been defying easy diagnosis. He seems optimistic that upcoming gall bladder surgery will help, but is not currently writing.”

Well, damn. Then I can only wish him the best and a speedy recovery!

Team Seven (yay) with new Deathstroke, new Waller, new Black Canary and others! Jesus Merino..nooooo0!

Interview with Marx and Lopresti over at io9:

http://io9.com/5916819/this-september-the-creator-of-jem-will-write-dc-comics-most-1980s-fantasy-heroine

“I’m taking a more intimate, familial approach to her adversary, who is her homicidal aunt who does not want to share power…. I’m trying to avoid a sparkly-crystals-and-pegasuses kind of approach. This is an alien world with blood powers that are related to crystals, but I’m going for a much more holistic approach.”

So, a darker tone with a homicidal aunt and “blood powers.” Sure sounds like a New 52 title… ;-)

Looks like the CBR has the creative teams:

“Alongside the #0 issues for existing titles, the publisher is also launching four new series that month. “Talon,” a spinoff from the current “Night of the Owls” crossover in the Batman world, featuring a story by Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV, written by Tynion and drawn by Guillem March, stars Calvin Rose, the only Talon to ever escape the Court of Owls. “Sword of Sorcery” is a new epic fantasy series anchored by an “Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld” serial by writer Christy Marx and artist Aaron Lopresti with a “Beowulf” back-up story written by Tony Bedard with art by Jesus Saiz. DiDio himself will write a new “Phantom Stranger” series for artist Brent Anderson spinning out of DC’s recent Free Comic Book Day special. And finally, “Team Seven” continues the merging of DC and WildStorm as writer Justin Jordan and artist Jesus Merino tell a tale of the earlier days of the DCU through a team that includes Dinah Lance, Amanda Waller, Steve Trevor, John Lynch, Alex Fairchild, Cole Cash and Slade Wilson.”

Oh yeah, the fact that the market won’t support a HEPZIBAH series is the best proof I’ve ever seen of how sexist, racist and speciest everyone is.

No Liefeld titles canned. Being best buds with the EIC and co-publisher has its privileges.

I liked Suicide Squad at the beginning but it’s kinda lost me recently. Team 7 is the only one of those that actually looks interesting to me.